[This transcript is little confusing
since it features video clips, etc. The part with Jon was filmed
at the 2000 Republican National Convention.]
This In The Mix special is made
possible by the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University
Liz (In the Mix host): Liz Clay from In the
WWF Woman: What's your name?
Rubin (In the Mix host): Rubin Polizzi.
WWF Woman: Nice meeting you!
Rubin: From In the Mix, Yes, I'm a very big
WWF Woman: Nice to meet you Rubin.
Liz: Were from In the Mix, it's a show on PBS
talking about youth and politics.
Newt Gingrich: Yes
Rubin: We would just like to ask you a couple
quick questions if you have the time.
Liz: How can young people find out the difference
between the truth and spin in politics.
Rubin: Hey, Can I ask you a couple of questions
Liz: In The Mix!
Rubin: In The Mix for teens
Ralph Nader: HUH!
Rubin: Find out the real deal.
Liz: A lot of young people don't feel that
they can find out the truth.
Rubin: If they don't hear the voices of young
people, they are just going to forget about us.
Rubin: Right over there, politicians giving
speeches all about George W. Bush
Crowd: Go Bush Go, Go Bush Go
Liz: The journalists, the reporters, the pundits
Rubin: We all have to watch and learn.
Liz: Because if we don't participate, no one
is going to make us
POLITICS: SIFTING THRU THE SPIN
Teen: As a teenager nowadays, when we hear
politic, we don't really see the value of why putting a good politician
in office means to us.
Teen: Since you're a kid, sometimes you don't
really pay attention to politics and things like that.
Teen: Rarely do you ever see a politician get
down to the level of the . . . of the teenagers, to see where
we are coming from.
Teen: They're not talking to us because they
probably think we don't care either, so why would they talk to
Teen: Most people aren't involved, they don't
really care ya know! You ask most people, "Are you voting?" Some
people are like "No, what does it matter, why does my vote matter?"
Rubin: Why did you guys get involved within
Boy: Umm wait, can I ask you a question first?
Rubin: Yea, sure!
Boy: Do you vote?
Amanda: I mean if nobody votes then like, I
mean that's the problem like it's gonna be in the hands of like
Sen. Santorum (R): I always say young people
have the most to gain and lose in any election, cause they have
to live with the consequences longer than anybody else.
Harold Ford (D): The challenge we have as public
policy makers is to show Americans whatever their age group that
you have something at stake here.
Steel: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid,
Teen: Though some of the issues may be boring,
if we don't, if we don't know what is going on, it's still going
to be affecting us somehow, whether we know it or not.
Steel: If young people don't get involved,
our voice isn't going to be heard. We are the people who are going
to be on the planet for the next fifty years.
Sen. Santorum (R): And the sad part is that
they end up voting the least. And yet are impacted the most.
Michael Delorenzo: There's other people making
decisions about your life everyday.
Rebecca Goulette: I mean the future of our
country is in our hands.
LLCoolJ: You have to let your voice be heard.
Harold Ford (D): I hope people get involved
and go to the polls and vote
Sheryl Crow: Because you have a say about your
future and it starts there, it doesn't start by sitting around.
Rock: You have to go out there and exercise
Harold Ford (D): There's only one day in America
where we are actually all equal, and it's election day, our votes
all count the same.
Rock: Go out there and smack down your vote,
register to vote, very very important.
Boy: Let's say you think that your vote does
not count, but then you realize what if it does?
AD CLASS 1
PSA (clip of two fighters in a ring): "Are
your candidates more concerned with attacking the issues, or attacking
Chris Malone: All right, what did you just
Crowd of kids: A fight!
Chris Malone: A fight, yeah, boxing, right?
The metaphor is that politics is, is like a sporting event. This
scenario forces you voters, you citizenry, to just be passive
and watch. That's not politics, politics isn't about just the
voters, just watching and then going to pull the lever every four
years or every two years. It's about getting involved.
Johnny Rotten (Sex Pistol): Indolence, apathy,
laziness, idiocy. None of these things are tolerable. Do not make
yourself meaningless. When you do that, you will be rolled over,
you will be the cannon fodder of the future.
Teen: Most voters depend on the television,
the radio, and the newspaper to tell them who to vote for. Rarely
do you find voters who are, who want to go out there and do the
research, find the information, and educate themselves by themselves
to make the right choice for them and that's the problem with
the game. It's the spectators that have lost what the meaning
of politics is, they no longer are being educated voters, but
just simply voters.
Ad: Bill Bradley: "Wouldn't it be better if
we had more than sound bites and photo ops when we were choosing
Jon Stewart: Politicians, at this point in
American history, are no different than advertizers.
Chris Malone: The thing about these campaign
ads is that they, they cost a lot of money. If you name your thirty
minute sitcom, I can tell you probably that it cost about a half
a million dollars for thirty seconds of TV ad. Something is going
on in that ad which might affect you, and that is what we are
going to try and pull out. We're going to read television, look
at the verbal cues, look at the content and substance of what
these ads say. We want to be skeptical but not cynical.
Chris Malone: When's the last time you all
saw a campaign ad?
Crowd: This Morning.
Gore Ad: "I'm going to fight for the values
and principals that I think are important in this country."
Ad: "George W. Bush, a fresh start for education"
Teen: They don't explain anything, they give
you one statement.
Ad: Gore: "I would fight for average working
Teen: You draw your conclusions on that statement.
Teen: You always see the candidates surrounded
by beautiful children, all nicely neat and they are always kissing
them but you know what, that always sets something off in my mind.
Teen: You don't really see the issues of the
person, you see why their opponent does this bad and this bad
and this bad.
Ad: "Senator McCain five times he voted to
use your taxes to pay for political campaigns. That's not real
Teen: I think this kind of political lingo
and double talk, all this is what's being fed to the American
Chris Malone: Maybe that's one of the reasons
why young people such as yourself turn off, and then don't vote
when you become of voting age. And by the way, we're not here
to criticize George Bush or Al Gore. What we're trying to do is
analyze the substance of the ads. Ya'll ready.
Ad: "It's disappointing. Friday, John McCain
promised to stop running a negative campaign. Then Sunday, he
attacked Gov. Bush with false charges on campaign finance. Gov.
Bush supports comprehensive reform that would outlaw foreign,
corporate, and union money to political parties. Senator McCain,
five times he voted to use your taxes to pay for political campaigns.
That's not real reform."
Chris: First of all, what did you notice about
the narration? Go ahead Jennifer.
Jennifer: They would use, a feminine voice
to soften the negative references that they are making to the
other candidate and then they would use a strong, ya know, male
voice to say the good things about Bush.
Chris: Anybody know what apposition is? Apposition
literally means when two things are right next to one another.
There is a verbal apposition that is going on here with the narration
OK. Watch again and watch the visual apposition.
Ad: "Governor Bush supports comprehensive reform
that would outlaw foreign, corporate, and union money to political
parties. Senaotr McCain, five times he voted to use your taxes
to pay for political campaigns."
Chris: OK, Yes Nneka, go ahead
Nieka: It was really impersonal when they refer
to McCain cause they show the building instead of the actual person.
Chris: Do you see John McCain's face at all?
Chris: They show Congress, this is John McCain.
Why Congress? Yes, Jennifer.
Jennifer: Don't even show his face, don't even
show that he is human, show ya know, like concrete because it's
a colder look. It's a much more impersonal look and ya know, it's
much farther away from the people.
Chris: Right, now, watch George Bush.
Ad: "Taxes to political campaigns, that's not
real reform. Governor Bush will devote the surplus to priorities,
a strong military, education, social security, and tax cuts."
Chris: What's the view you get of George Bush?
Carmelita: That he's actually moving
Carmelita: It shows that he's trying to do
something. You show the movement that he's doing. When you see
a building, what's a building doing but standing in place.
Chris (over Carmelita) : Right, right.
Carmelita: He's actually looking like he's
trying to work with something.
Chris: Right, he's giving a speech, he's talking
to voters, he's in a parade, and he's moving, he's jiggy with
it, yeah whatever that means.
Chris: And this visual apposition, this idea
of just a building that doesn't go anywhere and doesn't do anything
maybe, with this dynamic person walking down the street and that's
all intentional. But people don't realize that that's going on
in a 60-second ad. It happens subconsciously.
Jennifer: It's very subtle but it its not so
subtle because if you look for it, you see that what they're trying
Announcer: Tonight, on the Daily Show!
Rubin: Jon, first of all, you call yourself
the number one fake news show in America.
Jon Stewart: I've just blown our fake coverage.
Jon Stewart: We are definitely a fake news
Rubin: Problem with politics is that, (it's
fake and )you don't know what's real and what's not. You know,
it's called spin.
Larry King: Spinning is part of the process.
Mary Matalin: Spin, as from the perspective
of somebody who is an expert at it, is nothing more than presenting
your position and your candidate in the most favorable light.
Larry King: One of the emphasis on politics
is to spin because their concept is to make me look good. To make
my policy look good.
Amanda (Children's Express Reporter): I read
so much stuff that was contradictory, I wanted to see if maybe
I could find out for myself, by like talking to people.
Dennis Hastert: I mean it's just like going
out and buying a bicycle or a skateboard or a new car. Ya know,
you want to see the real facts and how things work and I think
it's the same way in politics, it's good common sense, don't be
Bill Schneider (CNN): Newspapers are supposed
to present the news and they usually label analysis as analysis,
and commentary that is opinion writing on the editorial pages
and the op-ed pages, that's the usual clue immediately what's
going on . When it's on television always look for the affiliation
of the person. Is it someone who does work for Democrats or Republicans.
Always look to find out who that person works for so you'll know
what kind of spin he likely to be giving you.
AD CLASS 2
Chris: Were going to watch the CBS evening
Dan Rather: "A slap in the face today for campaign
Chris: Watch how long the candidates themselves
News Clip: Gore: "I will take the first step
by requesting the Democratic National Committee not to run any
issue ads paid for by soft money."
(Voice: Bush never agreed.)
Crowd: 9,10 seconds. 9, 9 to 10 seconds, OK,
now here comes George Bush.
News Clip: Bush: "Is Al Gore breaking the pledge…,
doesn't surprise me. He's a man who says one thing and does another."
Chris: How long?
Crowd: 7 seconds
Girl: You see these things out of context ,
but you don't know everything that was said. So you see like one
attack after another, we don't know the whole story.
Chris: That is classic media coverage of a
campaign. What happens is that the candidate himself or herself
on the nightly news, gets about 7 seconds to say something. That's
not a lot of time.
Sen. Santorum (R): They can spin whatever you
say, no matter how smart you are or how articulate, or how well
you put it together and make you look bad or good depending on
what 3 seconds they clip.
Chris: That's one of the reasons why candidates
might begin to talk more in sound bites because they know when
they get on the nightly news they get 7 seconds to say what they
John Hockenberry (MSNBC): What were seeing
now is that more and more of the White House and Congress are
being run as public relations agencies, that they're in many ways
spinning information to help their candidacies. The decisions
of the White House have to do with how things are going to look
Chris: The way you look and the way you appear
on TV certainly matters to the electorat and we'e gonna see that
in a second. OK, Al Gore, here we go.
Ad: "The 1993 floods devastated Iowa, and Al
gore came through for us as he has done so many times when I've
Chris: So what is Al Gore wearing? Komiko.
Komiko: He's got on his jeans and his open
T-shirt, like I'm ready to get down and help those people from
Iowa, helping, ya know, stop this flood cause I'm a concerned
citizen, not only in, ya know, not only in Washington D.C. but
also in Iowa .
Chris: Uh huh, yea he's down with the people.
Alright here we go.
Ad: "I'm Tom Harkin. I'm here to say that Al
Gore stood up for Iowa. And in the caucuses on Monday January
24th, it's time for us to stand up for Al Gore."
Chris: Who is narrating this ad?
Nieka: Tom Harkin
Chris: Tom Harkin
Chris: So he's a senator for what state?
Chris and Crowd: Iowa
Chris: So why should we care about who's narrating
Girl: He's someone people trust, he was elected
to do a job, so he trusts Al Gore which makes us trust him also.
Girl: It was more personal. It was someone
who actually knew Al Gore and was saying something about him.
Chris: And if you are an Iowa Democrat, which
this is geared towards, Iowa Democrats, and you don't know anything
about Al Gore or Bill Bradley, it's a form of name recognition.
Hey, if my senator is endorsing this person then it must be good,
REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION
Liz Clay: Here we are at the Republican National
Convention. It may not look very glamorous from here because as
you can see we're standing in a trailer park, but it's not just
any trailer park. This is where thousands of journalists come
together and cover the convention that's inside. We're gonna take
you in there and speak to politicians, members of the media, and
help you figure out how to separate the rhetoric from the reality.
Jon Stewart: Let us go down to our correspondents
on the floor of the First Union Center, Stephen Colbert. Just
what does the GOP hope to accomplish at the convention?
Dick Cheney (Vice-President Candidate): "We
will store decency and integrity"
Elizabeth Dole: "To ensure freedom of survival."
John McCain: "Transform history."
George Bush: "Together, we will renew America's
Jon Stewart: What exactly does that mean?
Stephen Colbert (The Daily Show): Renewing
/America's purpose/ together. It really is a three-pronged process.
As you can see, the first prong which is, interestingly enough,
last. The together part, they've got down, they're here, they're
together. The next two parts are a little trickier. First, they
need to figure out what America's purpose is. Then, they have
the added challenge of renewing it.
Jon Stewart: Senator, and I don't want to give
the wrong impression, this is my first convention, but it's awful
Bob Dole (R): Yeah, well.
Schneider: A convention is an infomercial,
but they're not selling stain remover or hair treatments. They're
selling a presidential candidate.
Liz: Do you think that young people are perhaps
feeling that the system is not for them?
Carlson: Younger people may not feel that they
need government. Politics has to come out and grab them in some
way. And conventions are one way.
Brian: I was interested in watching the conventions
because I kind of wanted to see what the different strategies
were… the campaign strategies. I felt like it would be important
for my knowledge of who I wanted to vote for if I could see where
both were coming from.
Carlson (TIME): If only it was more like Survivor
where you know, it was reality-based TV, they'd be more likely
to tune in.
Jon Stewart: It seems like no surprises are
going to occur. We sort of know everything is mapped out. What
is it we're looking to learn from this?
Bob Dole: Uh… let's see.
Carlson: The parties are squandering the opportunity
to bring young people in by scripting it so much that it has nothing
to do with real life.
Brian: I think it's also important to look
past the spectacle of it all and the show and everything like
that. Look at the candidates for who they are… at least try to.
I think that's very important. You want to get past the whole
show aspect, who's talking for who and what actors are endorsing
who, and look at the people themselves. I think that's very important.
Jon Stewart: People believed Kennedy when he
said he said he believed in public service, when he said…
John F. Kennedy Clip: "Ask not what your country
can do for you, but what you can do for your country."
Jon Stewart: Until somebody comes along that
people believe, and that feel like isn't just scripting things
for four days, and seventy million dollars, and never speaking
in reality. Just always speaking in prepared, canned lines. How
can anybody watch that, and think that that's inspiring?
AD CLASS 3
Chris: Let's watch another Al Gore ad.
Ad: Gore: "The hallmark of the Gore Presidency
would be this: You wold know that you would have a President of
the United States who is willing to fight for the average working
person in America. Not the wealthy, not the privileged, not the
special-interest, not the powerful. I'm gonna fight for the values
and principles that I think are important in this country."
Girl: It's all just selling an image. I think
you have to look past the advertisement.
Girl: Something about this made me think of
Superman. Like between the music and, uh-oh, there's Al Gore on
a farm, and there he is adopting a child, and ..
Chris: Thayer.. you wanted to say something?
Girl: It was extremely enthusiastic. Like the
music in the background was really, it was really motivational
and it was like get up and do something.
Chris: Who's narrating this ad?
Boy: Al Gore. Himself.
Chris: What kind of effect does this have?
Girl: It gives it a more personal effect. All
the other ones had other people talking for them.
Girl: There's not one person saying, "Well,
I can do this", another person saying "Well, I can do this plus
this times infinity".
Girl: I don't think the advertisements help
you understand the candidates as much as they just help introduce
you to the candidates. I think what you have to do is look into
this if it matters to you.
Bill Schneider: We're covering the convention
as news event. Because we think our obligation is to give the
voters the information they need to make a wise choice. The parties
are in the business of selling their candidates. We're like Consumer
Reports. We're in the business of trying to tell the voter, "Well,
here's something you didn't know that the party didn't say and
here's a way to put what you just heard in perspective. You gotta
find sources you trust that will give you reliable information.
And it's like we're providing a consumer guide in politics.
Peter Jennings (News Clip): "There's a lot
Liz: This is how the convention is filtered
to you at home.
Dan Rather (News Clip): "America will choose
a new president"
Reporter: "Very good night for the G.O.P."
Reporter: "What a difference four years makes."
Liz: This is how you're understand it when
you're sitting in your living room. The journalists and reporters
explain to you what's going on.
Girl: The media likes to play it up and make
it more dramatic than I'm sure it really is.
Dan Rather: "A flagrant act of hyperbole."
Girl: It seems like the media feeds into it.
Trout: "I was the first person ever to bring
a camera into a convention hall. It was all radio up til then."
Gavel Holder (RNC '48): "The Convention will
now come to order"
Trout: The Internet is an even bigger jump
Bohrman: There's a connection here that is
just not possible on regular television.
Teen: You can post their questions on the chat
room and then the moderators and the participants of the radio
show or the net show, as it should be called, can answer those
Liz: Does this blow your mind? Is this like
the craziest experience you've ever had?
Teen: It's so huge!!
Teen: Yeah, it's pretty big!
Teen: So, the chat rooms, you can express whatever
you think, if you're really mad about something, you can be say,
"Hey, I'm really mad about this." It's a great way to get young
people to think about politics and to communicate freely about
Bohrman: There's something new happening here,
the politicians sense it.
Gov. Whitman (R): The best place to go for
instantaneous information is the web.
Newt Gingrich (R): I think that the Internet
gives young people a chance to learn more.
Cindy McCain (R): Every candidate's on the
Elizabeth Dole: You can get a lot of good information
on the Internet.
Ralph Nader: Look at some of the good Internet
Gov. Ridge (R): I think it's gonna change the
face of 21st century politics.
Rudy Giuliani: Even I learned the Internet.
Website Producer: On the web, you have the
ability to make the coverage whatever you want it to be, you know.
So many times, if you watch the networks, you have to take what
they give you. Now, if you go the internet, go to any of the websites
for the candidates themselves or journalism websites, you'll find
full speeches in streaming video, you'll find texts and transcripts.
It's allowing for a whole new type of reporting
in journalism. Taking video, sound, and stream all onto the internet.
So you get all you could possibly know about
the political process on the internet, and then you have to do
Rubin: We're at the Philadelphia Museum of
Art running up the very steps that Rocky Balboa ran up in order
to train for his fight in the boxing ring. Just like Rocky, politicians
work hard in order to get your vote. But if you make a well-informed
decision, we will be the winners.
Liz: The question is… where can we find accurate
information to make these choices? As we have seen, the internet
can really help. Just type in keywords, "politics,"" vote," "political
ads," "a candidiate's name," or an issue you're interested in.
You can also check out our own website, inthemix.org, or the PBS
Lisa: Here's a section about how to analyze
David: The month before the election, all these
polls come out on who's leading the race, and who might have won
the last debate. I wonder where they get this information from.
They probably have a large influence.
Lisa: I think that people who don't really
know what their stand is on who they're going to vote for could
be swayed in the polls. I've never been polled. Have you?
David: No, I wonder how they reach these people
to be polled, or where they get their information from.
Lisa: Here they've got some answers like who
conducted the poll. How the respondents were chosen. What is the
size ad error of the poll?
David: Here it tells you how to find out what
other polls were done on the topic, and if they said the same
Lisa: They have a section about dissecting
an ad, or interpreting a debate, evaluate a platform, assess a
website. What about…What about… I think they have a cyber debate.
Go Back. You can write in questions, and they'll contact the candidiates
and have them answer the questions online.
Lisa: Ohh, really!
David: Some of the questions have been about
internet piracy, drug use, and school violence.
Lisa: I want to ask them a question about how
they feel on scholarship money, just because it's such a big expense,
and I feel like it's a really big issue.
Tom Brokaw: You have to do your own independent
research, and measure one against the other. Go on the internet,
you know, look it up in the history books, try to take the measure,
there's a lot of material out there, you have to work hard at
Liz: Type in the words, voting record, and
you can find out how an elected official actually voted on different
Dan Rather: Well, when it comes to politicians,
always look at the record. Frankly, don't pay a lot of attention
to what they say, pay much attention to what they have done, and
what they are doing. Always look at their record.
Teen: I'm gonna actually see what it is, and
not what the hype is all about, not what they want me to perceive
from it. Then, I'd make my own judgements.
Liz: What is the best way for young people
to really get at what's going on?
Mike McCurry: Well, to read avidly, and to
find lots of different sources so you can see lots of different
kinds of opinions expressed, keep your ears and eyes open for
the argument that rings true.
Teen: Understand what the message is.
L.L.CoolJ: You have to judge people based on
what they show you, give you and knowledge they possess
Teen: If you're not educated about the issues
they're tackling, how can you make a right decision?
John Hockenberry: Never assume that one source
or a set of sources are going to be truthful under all circumstances
Smiley: Never do I use a story that only has
a single source, that is to say one person said this, or one person
said that. If one person said anything, that's just one person.
You need to verify with a number of different people.
Teen: The information they do give you, you
need to like research on it, so that you can get more from it.
Jonny Rotten: Knowledge is not a problem. It
is to your benefit. It is to be something you should wallow in.
L.L.CoolJ: A way to build a foundation is through
knowledge, through knowing, through learning, and through education.
CARL MCCALL TOWN HALL MEETING
Liz: Another great way to get information is
to ask politicians some direct questions. Let's go to a town hall
meeting with New York State Comptroller, Carl McCall.
Carl McCall: Well, what I try to point out
to people is that the things that really affect you most are things
that are decided by the political process. For instance, you've
gotta have a good education, what about healthcare, childcare,
the air we breathe, the water we drink, whether it's gonna be
pure, whether we're protecting our environment. These decisions
are all made by politicians. So, you can't afford to be out of
Liz: A lot of young people, myself included,
feel like maybe we can't afford to be in politics because there
are all these special interest groups. We see that Gore and Bush
together have raised $150 million. Money is a barrier because
we don't have our own funds. How can we really be that effective?
Carl McCall: That's a good question. First
of all, you have influence, too, ultimately, you can do just what
the special interests do, you can vote. And people, if they know
you vote, they will pay attention to you.
Teen: I wanted to know what is the process
that decides where the money goes?
Carl McCall: The budget process is probably
the most important process that happens in government. That's
how they take in your money that you pay for taxes mainly, and
then they decide how that money is going to be spent. If it's
something we all have to be involved in, it gets down to another
point, registering to vote because when they divide up the money,
the money doesn't necessarily go to the areas where there is the
greatest need, money goes to areas where there are the greatest
number of votes. So, the budget process is a highly political
process that is determined not on the basis of rationality or
need, but by those who have political clout. Those who have political
clout, they get their resources. The people who don't exercise
their political clout, they get left out. The same thing in education.
If students registered, and voted, and said you know, we're registered
voters, and this is how many of us are registered, you would get
the attention you deserve. You are the people who have the ultimate
power and you gotta use it.
Gov. Whitman (R): You have to insist on being
heard because the point is no matter your age, you can make a
difference, and if you insist on being heard, you will be heard.
Jon Stewart: People talk about, "...ahh..kids
today, Oh, they don't care about stuff." I don't get a sense of
Liz Clay: The only way we have leverage is
through our votes, and so if we get out there and vote in big
numbers, then they'll have to pay attention.
Teen: Now that I've seen how much effort goes
into every little detail and how much can be said or not said
in an ad or campaign, it's definitely gonna more important to
me now to pay more attention.
Teen: I'll just view them and ask myself, "
What am I getting out of this?" What issues are they addressing?
Teen: When I used to see things, you know when
you see close up shots, when you see a guy's tie matching with
the curtains, you know, I mean, you know, it just goes into your
head, like, why is he really doing this, is he just fed up, or
you know, does he really care about what he's standing up for?
Teen: When I'm watching it now. I used to say..
oh.. he says a nice outfit on, or oh.. he has nice features. Now,
I'm like, is he really telling me the truth? Should I go to the
library and do research on this?
Teen: Voters can't really rely on an ad to
tell you what to do, tell you how to vote, you have to go out
and educate yourself by doing the research on the candidate.
Teen: Now, I won't just watch it as a couch
Teen: Until people truly involve themselves
and learn about what, you know, they need to have done or who
they're electing to do that for them, you can't truly participate.
Teen: We're only as passive as we wanna be,
and now looking at it, you can become aware, you can choose to
sit and watch and have your own opinions, or you can choose, you
know, to get involved.
Liz: You know, you really have to figure out,
you know, who's telling the story, are you watching it on a network,
why are they showing it to you, you know, who pays for them? There's
just so many layers of it.